Ryan Wilson: Zone Entries and the Penguins Bottom Six Forward Group Zone Entries and the Penguins Bottom Six Forward Group

Ryan Wilson: Zone Entries and the Penguins Bottom Six Forward Group
Zone Entries and the Penguins Bottom Six Forward Group
- Ryan_Wilson

How much do you think having Crosby, Malkin, Letang Neal and Fleury have to do with the caliber of the bottom six ? I never rally payed close attention to the pens cap so that's why I am asking. That seems like it was a ton of cap spent on so few players and not that those guys aren't deserving sometimes in a cap era and team sport having talented players can hinder the rest of the roster was that the case or am I way off base here and they just poorly spent money on bottom six guys ?

How much do you think having Crosby, Malkin, Letang Neal and Fleury have to do with the caliber of the bottom six ? I never rally payed close attention to the pens cap so that's why I am asking. That seems like it was a ton of cap spent on so few players and not that those guys aren't deserving sometimes in a cap era and team sport having talented players can hinder the rest of the roster was that the case or am I way off base here and they just poorly spent money on bottom six guys ?
- blizzzard

A refusal or inability to assess players properly has cost them. The cap room for their bottom six is less than other teams but that isn't an excuse. There are plenty of players at similar price points they could have gone with over what they have the past few years.

Ray Shero wanted grit/experience/*fill in the blank intangibles* and it cost the Penguins.

For example Benoit Pouliot made 1.3M last year, Tanner Glass was at 1.1M. Pouliot was already on his fourth NHL team by the time New York signed him

Penguins needed to do a better job with their homework on players.

How much do you think having Crosby, Malkin, Letang Neal and Fleury have to do with the caliber of the bottom six ? I never rally payed close attention to the pens cap so that's why I am asking. That seems like it was a ton of cap spent on so few players and not that those guys aren't deserving sometimes in a cap era and team sport having talented players can hinder the rest of the roster was that the case or am I way off base here and they just poorly spent money on bottom six guys ?
- blizzzard

Highest paid player on the last cup teams since the Pens:
Kings-7
Hawks 6.3
Kings - 6.8
Boston 7.5
Hawks 7.1
Pens 8.7 (Malkin was 3.8)

Even 5 yrs ago Pens had a player 1.6 higher than the Kings at 7. Pens had 2 players at that level last year, and next yr Malkin will get an $800k raise. It has and will always be difficult to have a solid 4 line team with those 2. Pens desperately need Kap to make the top 6 so they can move Dupes down to help the 3rd line.

Curious how you're getting #'s from Gibbons. He played a fair amount of top line time with Crosby which would boost his #'s but he was terrible there. Then the rest of the bottom 6 was terrible which he played as well. Bottom 6 time in the playoffs showed he had 1 good game and then got hurt. I don't think his size will make him durable enough for NHL bottom 6 time.

What I haven't seen is if there is correlation between these zone entry numbers AND the Cosri numbers that we already have....?

And team systems have a lot to do with how these numbers look as well.

As a bruins fan I watch as the team's d men do not try to skate the puck out of the d zone, usually, that's what the system dictates.....d to d passing behind the net and an outlet pass to a support winger in the d zone but near the blueline who then skates it out of the zone.
So players like Seindenberg, Chara, Mquaid, boychuck, etc. are not going to have skate out numbers OR even passing numbers over the D blueline that look so great, but that's normal.

And then with the forwards, the bruins are a dump and chase team, along with teams like LA, it is a system that wears down the D men and considered a good one for PLAYOFF hockey.

I just haven't seen how this necessary correlates to TEAM successes yet. Maybe TEAM system or style, OR lack there of.

Maybe it helps define a player type, a defensive d man or an offensive d man OR a finesse skill player to a grinder for forwards.

I just feel that presenting these new numbers ALONE and assuming players are not any good based on them is a one dimensional, no different than many of the new advance stat numbers.

How do they correlate to other numbers is kinda important.

Goc and Spaling should be our 3rd and 4th line centers. Sutter should play top 6 wing or be traded for a top 6 wing

Goc and Spaling should be our 3rd and 4th line centers. Sutter should play top 6 wing or be traded for a top 6 wing
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Trade sutter Harrington and our 2015 first round for bobby ryan to play with sid

Trade sutter Harrington and our 2015 first round for bobby ryan to play with sid
- Palmer117

Without commenting on the actual deal you proposed I think people need to understand that it is going to cost ~8M per year to re-sign Bobby Ryan.

Without commenting on the actual deal you proposed I think people need to understand that it is going to cost ~8M per year to re-sign Bobby Ryan.
- Ryan_Wilson

Want to win cups these are deals you got make and risks you got to make in any sport

Want to win cups these are deals you got make and risks you got to make in any sport
- Palmer117

Ummm... no, not really. Sacrificing draft picks for a player is what helped Shero get canned. At least with most of Shero's trades, there was a chance of resigning some. That is a 100% rental player.

Bottom 6 will be better this year, but the top 6 will be worse. I don't expect Dupois to come back to his 2012-13 level. Having the injury plus a year older. He struggled a bit last year when he was healthy. Malkin still needs another winger. Bennett has been hurt the last 2 years and missed a lot of hockey. I also am not impressed at all with the new head coach. Guy is 57 and this is his 1st head coaching job in the NHL? Also the guy hasn't been in the league in 6 years. I think this guy and Rutherford are puppets for someone in upper management. I mean Rutherford went from being pretty much fired from Carolina to the Pens GM Job. I think the Pens took a big step backward hiring these 2.

Just my opinion and I have watched this team during the Baz Bastien era.

Without commenting on the actual deal you proposed I think people need to understand that it is going to cost ~8M per year to re-sign Bobby Ryan.
- Ryan_Wilson

I'm not doubting you, but that is a disturbing thought.

I'll comment on that proposed deal.....

I'm not doubting you, but that is a disturbing thought.

I'll comment on that proposed deal.....
- madmike71

You just can't hide the cap hits anymore and he is going to have leverage

http://capgeek.com/free-a...osition_id=F&fa_type_id=2

Want to win cups these are deals you got make and risks you got to make in any sport
- Palmer117

No the trades you have to make are for correctly to excellently valued players. Look at all the cup teams of the last few years. They all have extremely well balanced four lines with quality players on each. It seems impossible to field a team with that many good players, but then when you look at their cap charts you are left scratching your head as to how most of those guys are payed so low in relation to their production.

Sid and Geno are basically our top 6. What we don't need are the Bobby Ryans and Rick Nashes of the world that are payed 8 mil to score 50-60 points. What we need are the guys that score 50 or so alongside Sid and Geno for a discounted price. Like Jussi for 2.5 mil or Hornqvist for 4.2. Then we use our savings to fill out our bottom six with competent players rather than having to have a line of Craig Adams 1, Craig Adams 2, and Craig Adams 3 because we have too many players that we have to pay too much at the top end of our lineup.

To me, the way you win a cup is keep your core and have a good, steady flow of young players that can contribute before their third NHL contract. Imagine if some of these young D prospects on the verge of becoming NHL players were forwards.

If I'm JR, I'm looking for a like kind swap for a couple of these young D. Get a couple of good young forwards in return.

Want to win cups these are deals you got make and risks you got to make in any sport
- Palmer117

Those are the types of deals that make you the Flyers and Rangers. 87 and 71 can make Dupuis a 25g scorer, all they need is above average talent to play with and a good age and cap hit. They don't need Kane, Ryan type players. It would be sweet, but not really possible. Aside from the cap hit, that would be too many chiefs in the locker room. You don't get to that level by not being a bit selfish.

To me, the way you win a cup is keep your core and have a good, steady flow of young players that can contribute before their third NHL contract. Imagine if some of these young D prospects on the verge of becoming NHL players were forwards.

If I'm JR, I'm looking for a like kind swap for a couple of these young D. Get a couple of good young forwards in return.
- madmike71

I agree. At the VERY minimum you need some good young players contributing in the bottom 6.

Swapping prospects.. I think its a great idea and would even be willing to part with Pouliot for the correct winger prospect. And i really think Pouliot is going to be a stud.

Problem is, I can't think of an deal like this that makes sense. Despres for Brett connolly is about as close as I can get.

To me, the way you win a cup is keep your core and have a good, steady flow of young players that can contribute before their third NHL contract. Imagine if some of these young D prospects on the verge of becoming NHL players were forwards.

If I'm JR, I'm looking for a like kind swap for a couple of these young D. Get a couple of good young forwards in return.
- madmike71

Yep and that is what hasn't been happening for the Penguins. We aren't getting the Andrew Shaws, Tyler Toffoli's and Tanner Pearsons.

But we trade Joe Morrow for Brendan Morrow which is something I guess.

There is many different ways to win the cup. In my opinion signing Bobby Ryan isn't one of them. James Neal version 2.0.

Nice write up gunner, I appreciate the effort considering it's the worst hockey starved month of the year.